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	<title>Comments on: Religious vs. Spiritual</title>
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	<description>faith : creativity</description>
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		<title>By: lucretiaberry</title>
		<link>http://www.sammahlstadt.com/2009/08/16/religious-vs-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>lucretiaberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Spirituality and religion are not synonymous. For me, challenging religion, asking lots of questions and distancing myself from the religious traditions of my childhood resulted in me becoming a &#039;God-chaser&#039;--not an atheist. Its interesting how responses differ. If people want to focus on the abuses of a few and overlook all the good stuff, its their choice. I choose to seek a relationship with God in His context. For me, that does not mean institution-driven church, but it also does not mean atheist either, nor does it mean I get to create whatever feels good to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spirituality and religion are not synonymous. For me, challenging religion, asking lots of questions and distancing myself from the religious traditions of my childhood resulted in me becoming a &#8216;God-chaser&#8217;&#8211;not an atheist. Its interesting how responses differ. If people want to focus on the abuses of a few and overlook all the good stuff, its their choice. I choose to seek a relationship with God in His context. For me, that does not mean institution-driven church, but it also does not mean atheist either, nor does it mean I get to create whatever feels good to me.</p>
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		<title>By: smahlstadt</title>
		<link>http://www.sammahlstadt.com/2009/08/16/religious-vs-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>smahlstadt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Michael, you are definitely right that historically, religious leaders have drifted from the Gospel and built empires. It breaks my heart to see it. However, if we believe Jesus&#039; words, then we cannot allow that to stop our pursuit of livng out the gospel in relational communities.
As for communities of Christians living out a sacraficial love, I see no other way. If we follow after Christ and his teachings, we will be sacraficial in our everyday lives.  There is no following Jesus and living for personal gain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, you are definitely right that historically, religious leaders have drifted from the Gospel and built empires. It breaks my heart to see it. However, if we believe Jesus&#8217; words, then we cannot allow that to stop our pursuit of livng out the gospel in relational communities.<br />
As for communities of Christians living out a sacraficial love, I see no other way. If we follow after Christ and his teachings, we will be sacraficial in our everyday lives.  There is no following Jesus and living for personal gain.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.sammahlstadt.com/2009/08/16/religious-vs-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sammahlstadt.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-103</guid>
		<description>I certainly agree with your thoughts of a community founded on sacrifice and love. What a wonderful way it would be for people to see and experience.

In my limited experience however it does not happen. Not to pick on the Pope, the leader of the largest early Christ based religion, but in terms of wealth he is the leader of the religious wealthy. The Pope controls billions.

The Popes golden robes are made of gold thread, not exactly a symbol of putting money lower on the list than other values, Christian values or not.

The Mormon Church, Billy Graham, the list goes on where Christ Centered religion ends, and a question of monetary greed begins.

I had an uncle who worked for a famous radio and television evangelist in the fifties. My uncle helped route donation letters. Only donations over one hundred dollars solicited a response from the Evangelist, and that was a thinly disguised request for more cash. This evangelist may or may not have been typical for his time and perhaps today.

I can not wonder why people turn from organized religion when leaders of Churches have bankrolls large enough to fund small countries.

Our blogs for example. If we both suddenly started having one hundred thousand readers a day, I may start looking to monetize my blog. That would be an expectation perhaps.

For your blog however, it gets a little sticky because monetizing a blog and spreading the word are hard to say in the same breath.

I think what people want is real small time religion where small groups of people meet and share with each other. I believe that would interest people more in organized religion than what we currently have for choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly agree with your thoughts of a community founded on sacrifice and love. What a wonderful way it would be for people to see and experience.</p>
<p>In my limited experience however it does not happen. Not to pick on the Pope, the leader of the largest early Christ based religion, but in terms of wealth he is the leader of the religious wealthy. The Pope controls billions.</p>
<p>The Popes golden robes are made of gold thread, not exactly a symbol of putting money lower on the list than other values, Christian values or not.</p>
<p>The Mormon Church, Billy Graham, the list goes on where Christ Centered religion ends, and a question of monetary greed begins.</p>
<p>I had an uncle who worked for a famous radio and television evangelist in the fifties. My uncle helped route donation letters. Only donations over one hundred dollars solicited a response from the Evangelist, and that was a thinly disguised request for more cash. This evangelist may or may not have been typical for his time and perhaps today.</p>
<p>I can not wonder why people turn from organized religion when leaders of Churches have bankrolls large enough to fund small countries.</p>
<p>Our blogs for example. If we both suddenly started having one hundred thousand readers a day, I may start looking to monetize my blog. That would be an expectation perhaps.</p>
<p>For your blog however, it gets a little sticky because monetizing a blog and spreading the word are hard to say in the same breath.</p>
<p>I think what people want is real small time religion where small groups of people meet and share with each other. I believe that would interest people more in organized religion than what we currently have for choices.</p>
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		<title>By: smahlstadt</title>
		<link>http://www.sammahlstadt.com/2009/08/16/religious-vs-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>smahlstadt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It seems to me that you view the Church with the same lens as you view a corporation. While many churches too often resemble a company, the heart of a Christ-centered church is not to build an empire, where faith would indeed become less important as the success level rose, but to build a community founded on sacrifice and love. In that type of situation, I see money as merely a means to accomplish more giving, not a standard by which we measure success. Thoughts? Also, I am curious as to why you bring money into the conversation where you were talking about drifting morally. Do you see money as the primary reason many churches lose their way? Is there a way to avoid this? Thanks for your thoughts thus far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that you view the Church with the same lens as you view a corporation. While many churches too often resemble a company, the heart of a Christ-centered church is not to build an empire, where faith would indeed become less important as the success level rose, but to build a community founded on sacrifice and love. In that type of situation, I see money as merely a means to accomplish more giving, not a standard by which we measure success. Thoughts? Also, I am curious as to why you bring money into the conversation where you were talking about drifting morally. Do you see money as the primary reason many churches lose their way? Is there a way to avoid this? Thanks for your thoughts thus far.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.sammahlstadt.com/2009/08/16/religious-vs-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kind of a funny analogy, but it clarifies my thoughts perhaps.  In any small town there is never enough work for one lawyer but more than enough for two.

If one person firmly grounded in their [Christian] beliefs, you have the makings of a church or at the very least a small congregation the same beliefs.

If the first congregation is successful, or becomes to large, another will start up. As they each continue farther from the initial startup faith becomes less important than profit all too often.

What happens too often is money gets in the way. Not a fault of any belief system,  rather the basic emotions inherent in any successful endeavor.

Thus my capstone comment. As much as we would wish it were not so, I can not think of a single church that has been in operation for any amount of time where the focus does not start shifting to money.

I imagine you view the same process in a different light?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kind of a funny analogy, but it clarifies my thoughts perhaps.  In any small town there is never enough work for one lawyer but more than enough for two.</p>
<p>If one person firmly grounded in their [Christian] beliefs, you have the makings of a church or at the very least a small congregation the same beliefs.</p>
<p>If the first congregation is successful, or becomes to large, another will start up. As they each continue farther from the initial startup faith becomes less important than profit all too often.</p>
<p>What happens too often is money gets in the way. Not a fault of any belief system,  rather the basic emotions inherent in any successful endeavor.</p>
<p>Thus my capstone comment. As much as we would wish it were not so, I can not think of a single church that has been in operation for any amount of time where the focus does not start shifting to money.</p>
<p>I imagine you view the same process in a different light?</p>
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		<title>By: smahlstadt</title>
		<link>http://www.sammahlstadt.com/2009/08/16/religious-vs-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>smahlstadt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We surely hope to keep the dialogue open, and by the way, that is the best compliment we could ever receive. Thank you.
Organized religion is small to big business depending on size - I am not sure what you mean here, Michael. Also, if Jesus said that he would build his church as a vehicle to continue his work, how would this not be the capstone? Obviously, I am referring to a group of people, not an establishment - does this change the game?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We surely hope to keep the dialogue open, and by the way, that is the best compliment we could ever receive. Thank you.<br />
Organized religion is small to big business depending on size &#8211; I am not sure what you mean here, Michael. Also, if Jesus said that he would build his church as a vehicle to continue his work, how would this not be the capstone? Obviously, I am referring to a group of people, not an establishment &#8211; does this change the game?</p>
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		<title>By: Nikel</title>
		<link>http://www.sammahlstadt.com/2009/08/16/religious-vs-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sammahlstadt.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-99</guid>
		<description>I think there might be a couple of different things at play here. To answer your questions, I think it is becoming more socially acceptable for people to proclaim their atheism, and I also think that there are more people who do not believe in the existence of god.

I am atheist, but I wasn&#039;t always. I am one of the people you refer to who was turned off by the church itself and began to question my beliefs which eventually led to my atheism. I&#039;m not sure what the church can do about people like myself, because I can assure you that no amount of church re-vamping is going to change my feelings regarding the existence of god. But I do think that creating more churches like it sounds like One Church will be can only help keep the dialogue open.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there might be a couple of different things at play here. To answer your questions, I think it is becoming more socially acceptable for people to proclaim their atheism, and I also think that there are more people who do not believe in the existence of god.</p>
<p>I am atheist, but I wasn&#8217;t always. I am one of the people you refer to who was turned off by the church itself and began to question my beliefs which eventually led to my atheism. I&#8217;m not sure what the church can do about people like myself, because I can assure you that no amount of church re-vamping is going to change my feelings regarding the existence of god. But I do think that creating more churches like it sounds like One Church will be can only help keep the dialogue open.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.sammahlstadt.com/2009/08/16/religious-vs-spiritual/comment-page-1/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Faith and religion, intrinsic knowing of something greater than self, and the practice of that knowing? If we are talking the same terms, I think the question may be why aren&#039;t more Christians moving away from organized religion.

Is God any less comfortable being a daily part of someone&#039;s life and home than sitting in the Church on the corner waiting for the lights to turn on and the doors to open?

Bringing spirituality back into organized religion will bring a revival of the participation of organized religion. Until that happens, I do not forsee any changing of the numbers.

I view organized religion as small to big business depending on size, not as a primary capstone of faith and belief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faith and religion, intrinsic knowing of something greater than self, and the practice of that knowing? If we are talking the same terms, I think the question may be why aren&#8217;t more Christians moving away from organized religion.</p>
<p>Is God any less comfortable being a daily part of someone&#8217;s life and home than sitting in the Church on the corner waiting for the lights to turn on and the doors to open?</p>
<p>Bringing spirituality back into organized religion will bring a revival of the participation of organized religion. Until that happens, I do not forsee any changing of the numbers.</p>
<p>I view organized religion as small to big business depending on size, not as a primary capstone of faith and belief.</p>
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